SIXTH SESSION

THIRD SITTING		NORMAL		26 AND 29 MARCH 1999
								
								
VOLUME 4

. [In conclusion, I commend the Minister's budget.  Thank you].
(pg 25 ln 7)

[Thank you Chairperson, unfortunately my friend]
(pg 30 ln 31)

TRANSLATION:  This type of person is a traitor.  This land is not going to be governed by traitors, who have been influenced by their bosses, and who expect to be the ones telling us, Africans, that our Amakhosi are worthless, they are nonsense.

We the PAC, are a democratic party, and as a party of Africans we know that our Monarchy was democratic.  Therefore, let us not be told that our Monarchy is undemocratic.

In a white court there is one judge who hears a case and passes judgement on you.  In our court, Inkosi does not single-handedly pass judgement on you, he does so in conjunction with other people who are there.

Therefore, we recognise the issue that Amakhosi should not be paid on all sides.  Amakhosi should not be paid as politicians and receive payment as part of the Monarchy.  What this African is saying - that Amakhosi are getting paid from all sides - is not real.  Izinduna hear cases; Amakhosi hear cases; Amakhosi are custodians of the land, therefore, it is a pity he is not here.  
But, he has disturbed me because he has caused me to deviate from the speech I intended to deliver.  He has engaged me in a conflict over which our forefathers fought at Isandhlwana.  Our forefathers fought over it at Ondini.  He is bringing it back into this democratic House.  He is insulting us, saying that we are people of no consequence.  

The English and Amakhosi of Sweden and Norway where we go asking for pennies, have their own Monarchs, their own laws and their own cultures.

Let me proceed, Chairperson, before I run out of time.  I am grateful for Mr Miller and Mr Sutcliffe's work.  In this House it was as if they disagreed.  T/E
(pg 31 ln 15-30)

[they got along well]
(pg 31 ln 31)

[There is no such thing Africans]
(pg 31 ln 36)

[informal settlements].
(pg 32 ln 1)

TRANSLATION:  Let us not insult Africans by saying we are building houses for them as if they are fools.  Let us tell them that we are merely putting a roof over their heads.

And we cannot build houses for them, Chairperson, as long as there is no land.  That is my last word, even if you can say I am repeating the same song, I am harping on the same string.  If it is the right music I must continue to harp on that same string.  I thank you.  T/E
(pg 32 ln 14-17)

TRANSLATION:  People in urban areas are poor and unemployed and others are supporting some of their family members and are unable to pay for water and electricity.

They have gone back to fetching water from rivers and swamps.  It is a health hazard to drink water drawn from ravines in townships.

Development is necessary in rural areas.  But, that does not mean the government should take whatever it wants on the land of Amakhosi and their people, with the aim of destroying the dignity of the Monarchy.

The law intended to arrange the entire country known as the Local Government Municipal Structures Act (Act No. 117/1998) does not quite make sense to black people in rural areas.

This re-demarcation and re-demarcation of boarders is what is causing confusion in the whole of Africa. The hon member, Mr Sutcliffe, has left this Parliament to take up a position as Chairman of a high level council, charged with demarcating boarders, called the Demarcation Board.

According to this Act those who will be consulted regarding demarcation of boarders are: the Minister of Local Government, the Demarcation Board, the South African Local Government Association - the SALGA.

Nowhere does it state that Amakhosi will be consulted, this is because Amakhosi are looked down upon.  T/E
(pg 33 ln 23- pg 34 ln 2)

TRANSLATION:  We are going back to what we were avoiding in 1983,  what was instituted by the old government, the government with three TLCs.  That was the "better" government, and then the Indian on one hand, and the coloureds on the other.  And we were at the bottom.

We are going back there now.  Amakhosi are given 10% of their own land, the land of their forefathers.  T/E
(pg 34 ln 16-19)

[Municipalities will be built throughout KwaZulu-Natal, but people who are custodians of the land will just be told, they will be counted and informed as to who will be included there].
(pg 34 ln 27)

[Which means that Inkosi is talking nonsense.  If there is anyone who thinks that Inkosi is talking nonsense, he or she will tell Inkosi to go away for there is nothing of consequence there to say]
(pg 34 ln 32)

[for planting that bad seed within the police service].
(pg 66 ln 31)

[The hon member has two minutes]
(pg 69 ln 21)

TRANSLATION:  Thank you Chairperson and your hon House.  Firstly I hear my brother Bheki Cele, over there, saying he does not know the position of the Department of Safety and Security.

He is confusing me.  I do not even know whether he is still the Chairperson.  He is talking, but I do not know what he is saying.

Chairperson, I would like to greatly commend the hon Minister in charge of this Department, Inkosi Ngubane.  He is in charge of the Department knowing full well that he is not the only one in charge of it. 

All the powers are not with him.  The powers reside with the national department under the leadership of Minister Mufamadi.

Mufamadi, Mr Chairperson, is the one who deploys the police in this Province, as he does so without consulting the hon Inkosi Ngubane. 

It sounds mysterious, twisted, Mr Chairperson, that there should be another person who deploys and withdraws people from an area while you are in charge.  Mr Chairperson, similarly when he withdraws them, he does so without consulting with Inkosi Ngubane.

Chairperson, it perplexes me that the ANC purposefully allows crime to continue so that the region of KwaZulu-Natal can be criticised for the in-effectiveness of police.  I place all this in the hands of the African National Congress.  It is the ANC that creates all this.

Today the Department is in a serious problem because of programmes planned by the ANC Government, to disturb peace in the region of KwaZulu-Natal because it is not the ANC which is in government.  The ANC has established private security companies all over the place, who collect weapons that are abundant throughout the Province, and they are giving them to members of the African National Congress.

What I am saying is true, and no one can dispute that.  I was surprised when Bheki did not explain that this was happening. Even when they speak, Chairperson, when they are given an opportunity on radio and television, the ANC always say it is the KwaZulu-Natal region that has violence.

With that, they are trying to say the Zulu Nation is the birth place of violence, which is untrue.  Instead they should say that the birth place of violence is the ANC and the founders of the organisation.  There is no other parent of violence besides the ANC.

Just recently people were killed in Richmond.  When the Safety and Security Committee, chaired by Bheki Cele, went to Richmond to create peace in that area, Mr Cele led his team and withdrew saying they could not remain in that Committee.

It is because those who were dying were not ANC members but they were UDM members.  Just recently the war in Richmond destroyed many people while the police were there.  But, Mufamadi did not discuss this with Inkosi Ngubane. 

In the end, when all that had happened UDM members died and ultimately their leader Sifiso Nkabinde.  Bheki Cele and Sifiso Nkabinde were great pals.  They used to sit there whispering to each other and attacking people on this side.  Before Sifiso's departure, they unequivocally said they would never respect Inkosi Ngubane as the Provincial Minister in charge of that Department.  

I do not know Chairperson.  It is said we are going to elections.  I do not know whether we are going to elections.  I do not think there will be free elections with the abundance of guns, guns that are abundant at Izingolweni, at Bulwer and all over the land, weapons that are being distributed by the private security companies that are being used by the ANC.

And we think we will go to free elections.  We will not be free.  We will go to elections just as we are, and the guns will not be collected.

Today, Chairperson, I am saying the guns that are abundant at Izingolweni, abundant in Port Shepstone and abundant in Bulwer, should be collected so that people can freely go to the polls.

Sir, there is a Peace Committee that was established by the hon Premier of that time, Dr Mdlalose.  I would ask that that Committee continues to function and involve itself by being present wherever there is violence.

This Committee's funds should be increased, because we cannot rely on the Safety and Security Committee to deal with this, when there is a lot wrong with the Safety and Security Committee itself.
Thank you Chairperson and your hon House.  Just yesterday we and the Committee going with Bheki Cele and certain members.  I cried out in shock when Mr Bheki Cele called a person who is not an Inkosi, an Inkosi.  In fact, he is in competition with Inkosi of the area.  Even high ranking people in that area went to his funeral, saying he is an Inkosi.  Is this the type of peace we want in the Province?

The Inkosi of the area, Ngwane, is there.  Yet, they are calling his competitor an Inkosi.  I am saying if the ANC commits itself to peace, let it do so honestly.  It must stop playing games.  I am pleased.  T/E
(pg 69 ln 30- pg 71 ln 13)

[We thank the hon member].
(pg 71 ln 15)

[He is insulting me, he is insulting me].
(pg 96 ln 24)

[No, I will request an opportunity to ask a question about these policemen called Popeye].
(pg 109 ln 11)

[I greatly commend what you did Chairperson, by ordering Bheki to leave the chamber.  I think you would have completed your mission if you were to order Dumisani out of the chamber.  But, if you do not do that, the House will not settle down]. 
(pg 109 ln 29)

[I was very grateful, Chairperson, when you ordered Mr Burrows out of the chamber.  But, it would be even better if you could order the hon David Ntombela out of the chamber].
(pg 110 ln 3)

[we are hungry],
(pg 134 ln 26)

TRANSLATION: Maybe, Chairperson, we should say that when, in the evening, you drink some of that hot-stuff she referred to, you should ride that horse and leave the car here today. T/E   
(pg 156 ln 4)

TRANSLATION:  Chairperson, since 1994, South Africa has made progress.  We know that many people, who were here and who saw things happening, and saw the struggle to ensure that one day the country would be free, were making a noise as they are doing today.  They were saying something different to what is being said now. 

We are then saying if we want progress, if we want our country to be free and to produce at a level that will satisfy everyone, in South Africa, we must work to ensure that we all know that wherever we are, we have been placed there to be in the public eye, and to be of service to the public.  We must know that roads are the backbone of life.

Previously, there were no roads.  People could not work on anything.  They could not even do the farming that we are speaking of today, saying people should be self-sufficient.

Today, we see small, developing farmers being able to do things in order to take care of their families.

They have their own private places.  They have places where they grow sugar cane and forests as I have mentioned.  All this did not happen in the past, but today, it is happening.

It is because people have opened their eyes.  Although there is criticism of the government, they see what the government is doing.  They have goodwill.  They say that they recognise the good that is being done by the government.  It is bringing us into the light, eternal light, which will never change.  Thank you Chairperson.  T/E
(pg 160 ln 34- pg 161 ln 11)

TRANSLATION:  I would like, Madam Chair, to also briefly speak on other matters.  The hon Minister spoke about RTI, which empowers people to be in charge of issues of transport, in deciding how it will work.

But, hon Minister, I would like to say that in my home area of Eshowe, there are certain white men who do not want this progress.  For example, Mr van Rensburg and others who have now left.

In one of the meetings last year, Mr Cele, who is in charge, asked where the money was since it had left the Department in Pietermaritzburg.  He did not want to come out clearly.  He then said people should go and ask Buthelezi at Ulundi or Mandela in Cape Town.  I wish to say, hon Minister we do not have a place for such people here. T/E
(pg 162 ln 8-14)

TRANSLATION:  I wish to comment on page 8 of the Minister's speech.  As far as I can see, the R13 million he speaks of will be sent to Nkandla.  Let me congratulate the people of Nkandla for getting such an amount of money.  I remember that the roads there were not good.

But, hon Chairperson, the land of KwaZulu-Natal is wide.  We have Msinga, where the Rev Mtetwa comes from.  Roads in that area are not good.  We have Ngwavuma, at Manguzi and roads in that area are also not good.  Similarly, at Obonjeni and places like Ndwedwe, roads are bad, hon Minister, even where the King comes from.  In his speech the King apologised for being late as a result of a punctured tyre.

Therefore, Mr Minister, I would ask that those areas be taken care of.  I heard some people out there gossiping about you.  They were saying, Oh! the hon Ndebele is doing a favour for the hon JZ that is why he is improving Nkandla.  It is clear that this is politics.  [LAUGHTER]  

But, I am saying Mr Minister, if it is not true that you are doing it for the hon Mr Zuma, if you are just carrying out your duties, then we will accept that.

I wish to deal with the issue of tenders.  Even some of the tendering processes that are already in progress.

One white fellow, Mr Johnson visited me to speak about tendering for buses.  He said people should tender for operating on certain routes.

But, Sir, I find it difficult that one would buy a bus for R500 000 and five years down the line, one is told that one's turn is up.  Then one has to start all over again.  When you bought buses, you even built a workshop.  I would like the Department, to look closely at that because it would cripple our economy.  It would also create complaints within the Department.

Therefore, I wish that the time could be extended beyond five years, because there are even cars that take up to five years when you get them from a garage.  Then, what about a bus.

Similarly, Chairperson, they should be given leeway because even the Department itself has not completed the building of roads. Many buses are damaged because of these roads that have not been properly done due to lack of funds.

On the main road near Ongoye, near the Macambini cross-roads, that lead to the Nyoni Police Station and the Nature Conservation, I would be delighted if two Departments could join forces, including the hon Minister's Department.  To expect one Department to do all the work may retard progress.

Let me take, for instance, the Department of Economic Affairs and the Department of Health.  Many people go to clinics.  There are many people who go to the police station for assistance.

It would be good if Ministers could co-operate and be able to fix such roads, because even government cars get damaged.

Therefore, Madam Chair, let me return to the issue of those who have been empowered in rural areas.  We discovered that people from the Department go out there and they do not meet with those people who were selected to deal with matters of access roads.

It is problematic for us that in our rural areas an ordinary person could call upon officials, then the people who were selected to be in positions were unable to communicate with officials.

Something similar happened at kwaHlabisa.  An ordinary person, who was not even in any of those fora, was able to call upon an official of the Department for discussions relating to problems.  Now, Madam Chair why were those people placed in positions when their services are not going to be utilised?  If citizens of the area have complaints, they have to present those complaints to them.

I think that will be problematic because it will cause those people who have been placed in positions to withdraw.  As I have already mentioned, at Eshowe, we had a similar problem, as was the case in other areas.

Let me express gratitude.  As I mentioned earlier regarding the NCOP meetings we attended in Cape Town.  I want to emphasise, my brother Roy Ainslie with whom we sometimes attend the meetings, the NCOP is generally quiet, but when KwaZulu rises, there is movement.

As I have already said, KwaZulu is the engine, my brother here can verify that.  Therefore, I wish that the budget we have been allocated can be used properly without partiality.

We are all waiting to see if things will progress accordingly.  Therefore, I accept your budget.  Thank you.  T/E
(pg 164 ln 3- pg 165 ln 15)

[to turn the sod, we are coming soon].
(pg 166 ln 15)



